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More on the Mooninites

neitherday
Date and Time  - Feb. 1st, 2007, 01:17 am

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A lot of people seem to think the response to the Mooninite devices was overblown and paranoid. While I certainly agree that a lot of the post-9/11 security in the United States has been based on paranoia, I find it completely reasonable to treat strange unknown electronic devices attached to supports for overhanging highways with a high degree of suspicion.

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From:[info]pathia
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 06:19 am
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They were apparently there for 2-3 WEEKS before this happened the way it did.
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From:[info]neitherday
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 06:24 am
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True, and perhaps it would be more reassuring if they were reported sooner.

However, when it was reported, the responders had no way of knowing how long they were up nor what the devises were intended to do. Even if they did recognize the Mooninite character, they would still not know if it was simply the front plate of a more sinister device.
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From:[info]babspace
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 01:51 pm
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If they had actually been up for the 2-3 weeks that Turner claimed they had been, then why didn't someone notice them sooner? I mean the stupid things were motion sensored to light up when anyone came near. I call bullsh*t on Turner.
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From:[info]turil
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 07:52 pm
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Peter and his friend put them up on the 17th, I believe. No one called the police about it before then probably because no one thought they were anything but amusing art or creative decorations, just like the thousands of other drawings, paintings, and other guerilla art that adorns our cities.
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From:[info]panda_cookie
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 06:25 am
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As the above commenter said, these little devices have been around for two or three weeks. That, to me, is what makes this so absurd. It took three weeks for Boston officials to notice these gadgets and get all up in arms about this. If these were really bombs, we'd have been dead by now.
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From:[info]neitherday
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 06:32 am
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The financial cost of monitoring every nook and cranny of every structure on even a weekly basis would be astronomical. I would have liked these devises to be caught earlier, but unfortunately they weren't. However, the response when they were found was appropriate, especially when you keep in mind that the responders had no idea when or by whom these devises were placed nor did they know their intended purpose. All they knew is someone had placed mysterious electronics-bearing devises in structurally sensitive locations.
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From:[info]panda_cookie
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 06:46 am
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True. It's just crazy to me, though, that NO ONE noticed these ads before yesterday. Not even regular civilians noticed them. Or if they did, they didn't give them another thought. Now all of a sudden there's chaos over these ads.

I'm not saying officials should monitor every little bit of Boston. I'm just saying that it's wild how no one paid these ads any mind until yesterday.
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From:[info]turil
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 07:47 pm
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I'm also wondering why no one put two and two together and realized that the little glowing Mooninite on the bridge at Sullivan Station was just like the giant glowing Mooninite on the billboard at Sullivan Station that had been up for a couple of months until just recently.
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From:[info]sophiaserpentia
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 01:02 pm
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What concerns me is that there were 4 calls placed to 911 at about roughly the same time, reporting devices all over the city. Two of them were these mooninite devices. Two of them were not. But police say they have no reason to believe that 'concerned citizens' made the calls. If it turns out that the 'guerrila marketers' were behind the calls, then THAT certainly crosses the line. My attitude at this point is wait and see.
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From:[info]turil
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 07:44 pm
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Where did you hear about this? I haven't seen anything about that on the news. I've heard a lot of speculation about it, but nothing official.
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From:[info]sophiaserpentia
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 07:50 pm
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It was in several of the news stories yesterday. Here, for example:

http://www.wtol.com/global/story.asp?s=6018348
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From:[info]turil
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 09:18 pm
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I couldn't find any mention of who made the calls in that article. Maybe you saw it somewhere else?
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From:[info]lonelylabrat
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 07:51 am
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i agree. i think boston did the right thing to really investigate the whole situation, because it was suspicious. and yeah, they may have been up for three weeks or whatever, and yes, if they were real bombs it would not have been good, but you cant expect police to know everything at all times. when something comes up you deal with it...but i dunno. it still seemed a little odd how they dealt with it.. i mean, i'm mostly bothered by the idea that this kid might have to serve time for this.i think thats what i find kinda screwed up.
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From:[info]turil
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 07:43 pm
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I sort of expect overreaction and paranoia from the general public, but the bomb squad folks should be trained to know a bit more about motives and general profiles involved in bomb cases, and not be working with a Hollywood mentality. Real terrorists just don't put attractive blinking lights on their bombs.
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From:[info]neitherday
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 07:53 pm
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How do you know what a real terrorist would or wouldn't do. Terrorist have hidden bombs in things from teddy bears to tennis shoes. And lets not forget that the police did not even know that these had a functioning light display component, as the LED display was not on during the day.
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From:[info]turil
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 09:12 pm
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Well, because real terrorists actually want their bombs to go off. And if a bomb is easily seen and discovered, that sort of ruins the plan... Anyone properly trained in basic police investigation should know this.

This is not to say that bomb threats should be ignored, but that there needs to be some kind of evidence that any random object is likely to be a bomb, before jumping to a conclusion based on no evidence at whatsoever.
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From:[info]neitherday
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 09:23 pm
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Well, because real terrorists actually want their bombs to go off.

Exactly why the area immediately around the devices needed to be blocked off. The police didn't know if these devices were timed to explode at any minute.

And if a bomb is easily seen and discovered, that sort of ruins the plan... Anyone properly trained in basic police investigation should know this.

Even if police had noticed the LED display, they had would not have been aware it was operational. In hindsight this may be silly, but the responding police did not have the benefit of the knowledge we've gained after the fact.

This is not to say that bomb threats should be ignored, but that there needs to be some kind of evidence that any random object is likely to be a bomb, before jumping to a conclusion based on no evidence at whatsoever.

The point you are missing is that these weren't just any random objects. They were unknown electronics bearing devices attached to the undersupports of roadways.

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From:[info]turil
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 09:36 pm
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I guess I just don't want to live in a world where people are so afraid of things, especially art. Being an artist myself, and having lots of home made "unkown electronic bearing devices" on my person, in my life, and on most of my friends, I really hope that people learn that they are only going to make the world a worse place by being so paranoid, not better.

As far as I see it, when unusual things and creative expression are seen as dangerous, we all suffer.
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From:[info]neitherday
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 09:48 pm
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This isn't about art. The responding police did not know this was these devices were supposed to be art, if you can call marketing "art".

This isn't only about the nature of them being unknown electronic bearing devices, it is also about their placement in strategic structural locations.

Yes, we should not be paranoid. However, we should not be naive either.
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From:[info]turil
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 07:36 pm
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The thing is anything, anything at all could be a bomb. And most real terrorists hide their bombs so that they aren't discovered before they go off. Sure, we could play it safe and be completely paranoid and spend all of our lives trying to detonate everything in sight in case it might be a bomb. But it seems completely irrational to randomly assume that something is a bomb unless there is clear evidence of it actually being a bomb, and not, for instance, a cell phone, or a car, or a lunchbox, or a shoe, or a statue of Jesus, or some lights, or, or, or...

Heck, as a bicyclist, I've always got LEDs attached to me, as well as my bike. Hmmm, maybe I am a bomb!
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From:[info]neitherday
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 08:15 pm
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It would be irrational to assume everything is a bomb. However, strange and unknown electronics-bearing devices placed strategically on highway girders definitely should be checked out. It would be negligence not to have.
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From:[info]turil
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 09:15 pm
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Sure, check it out, but without any evidence whatsoever that something might be explosive, it's insane to set a whole city off into a panic just because you don't know what something is, especially when you live in an area with lots of creative geeks from MIT, MassArt, and so on, where light up toys and public art is a dime a dozen.
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From:[info]neitherday
Date:February 1st, 2007 - 09:55 pm
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Boston was never put into lockdown. The authorities only blocked off the immediate area around the devices. The panic was created by the media, including the Turner-owned CNN. If city officials were secretive about what was going on, the media speculation as to why they were blocking off traffic would have been much worse than what we saw. The only thing the media likes more than a good story is a good story that has more room for wild speculation.